FORUMS, GROUPS: WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING

[ Apostle1.com's Opening Note, Opinion & Commentary:  It is rather interesting that many who call themselves "Christian" are incapable, or unable for the most part, to truly understand the rudiments of Christianity itself, its history and faith ... for in what they do, they often bastardize the Life and Teachings of Jesus Christ to suit their own misguided personal agendas, aims and ends; much like the Roman Jurisdiction of the Catholic Church has done since about 800 A.D. before the final schism (1054 A.D.) from the root, ground and base of things "Christian" which is solidly based, grounded and rooted in all things known and called today as "Orthodox" or "Orthodox Catholic Christianity" Our Vladyka +Thaddeus who is the Metropolitan Primate of this Jurisdiction and our Archabbot provides the following for you to consider.] 

When we view the history of the Roman Jurisdiction of the Catholic Church it is no wonder that there are so many bastard children from it who are more known and called "Protestant" especially their "cultic" brethren leading the pack in the forums (for example: ASM-Forum@yahoogroups.com) groups and other such institutions supposedly established for religious understanding.  especially in that which is known as the World Council of Church (under which the "National Council of Churches" exist).  Oh, there are many, many more areas, groups and forums of which the Roman Jurisdiction of the Catholic Church has its fingers into. 

The real crux of the matter and our posting of the following under the line-break is because someone was supposedly to have called one of the "forums" 'owner' or moderator complaining about the direction the group or forum was headed.  Why?  Because they cannot, will not and refuse to accept historical fact and its "truth" when presented for which they cry or call "foul" and ask the owner or moderator to step in to remind the group or forum the rules of (so-to-speak) engagement ... to lessen or prevent FACT and TRUTH from being known out of fear that their members will leave, knowing full well that many of their members are motivated more by their vainness, self-seeking image, including those who have a growing form of 'ministry' where they can howl like a wolf with their cultic nonsense of believing things never accepted by the Church before hand... claiming their titles and holier-than-thou theologies not based on sound doctrine... and most certainly not "Catholic" in spirit or in truth ...  We must admit that not all their members can be painted in such a wide brush stroke for many are truly sincere believers, but that which they are (like sheep) being led into is what Satan, the Evil One, the Devil is glad to see!

Of course, when we view what has been and is happening in North America and through out the world by cultic Protestantism... we find, as alluded to, the entry of the Evil One, the Devil, Satan at the helm of which the false and heretical religion of Islam's extremists are part and partial to the whole package society is willing to accept as a "religion of peace" when, in fact, after reading its so-called (un-)holy book... there is no choice of a Muslim but to kill, maim and brutalize any who are not "Muslim" ... even immigrant Muslims who escaped and arrived in the USA for safety reasons, cannot refuse to do what is dictated by their holy book should extremist type of Muslim's gain any kind of 'control' over any city, county, state or Federal agency or government.  Also See Ending Note below:   ]

"D" stated it correctly...
    And what he has said is true of many, NOT ALL, but many... for when one denies the ancient Holy Spirit inspired Seven Ecumenical Councils who some call the "Do Not Councils" which leaves everything else open to creativity... including any denial of the ancient allegorical biblical understandings involving the Seals of the Confessional... anyone... then there is the basis of all the issues for heresy, apostasy and worse.. including ordination of females beyond Deaconess... Sorry, but there are many females in the movement who are very well educated who have been errantly ordained beyond Deaconess who have, by the actions of their so-called bishop(s) who are not "Catholic" whatsoever be that spiritually or materially for to do so is akin to turning away from the Holy Spirit who inspired the ancient Seven Ecumenical Councils that all who are truly Catholic (be they Orthodox Catholic or Roman Catholic) follow and struggle to maintain....

  Nothing is meant against females in and of themselves as individuals for many in the forum and the various movements have sincerity of heart and spirit in their belief, but the errant belief to deny the councils and to go against them, is as said...

  There are many who claim the Bible as their basis of their faith forgetting that the Church came first... the Holy Apostles and then the Holy Bible... not the Bible then the Church as some act out by their claim that they follow and practice what is contained in the Holy Bible...

+Thaddeus the most unworthy repentant one and fool for Jesus Christ in the vineyard of this life!

"D" wrote:

Fr. "L":

It was not Bishop "B" who first called you a heretic and apostate.  It was I, and I take full responsibility and pleasure in doing so.  You provided the definition of Apostasy as listed below and included the etiology of the word.  So let's take some of what you have to say  and analyze it.

"Apostasy is the formal religious disaffiliation or abandonment or renunciation of one's religion, especially if the motive is deemed unworthy. In a technical sense, as used sometimes by sociologists without the pejorative connotations of the word, the term refers to renunciation and criticism of, or opposition to, one's former religion. One who commits apostasy is an apostate, or one who apostatizes. The word derives from Greek (apostasia), meaning a defection or revolt, from  apo, "away, apart", , stasis, "stand", "standing". The term is sometimes also used to refer to renunciation of a belief or cause."

1. Apostasia - revolt or defect.  from the root "apo" away/apart
2. Statsis - Stand /standing

You ARE apostate from the catholic faith because you are apart from one of the primary tenants that makes us Catholic.  You are also apostate because you are taking a stand that the creed is not necessary.

You call  your self a "Catholic" and state your line of succession for your ordination (we'll get to that in a minute).

Your bishops are also apostate if they agreed to ordain you without a profession of faith via the Creed.  When you listed one of the ordaining bishops line of succession to include, Mary Magdalene, I come to believe that your bishop is also a heretic because Mary was never listed as an apostle (although a very devout disciple of Our Lord), she was never a bishop and never given the mandate to go out and make disciples of all men.

You stated that you have held to same religion since you were conscious of what religion is.  This is do not doubt, just by your own descriptions of what you believe it is not Catholic.

You may well be Christian, you have not said anything to indicate otherwise, but MR. "L", despite your fancy pedigree, you are not Catholic, much less a Catholic priest.  Anything else is just play like.

Yours in Christ,
"D"

From:
To: ASM-Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Subject: [ASM-Forum] Re: Shock & Update Info....

So, let me just take this moment to point out a bit of rudeness.

" 'Mister' "A," that is, I, am a presbyter, duly ordained by two bishops standing in Apostolic Succession continuing from Oriental, Eastern, and Western lineages that each trace back to Peter and Paul, Paul, and Philip, respectively. I currently minister "within the circle of the heart" (that's what "incardinated" means) of a local bishop who is not only well recognized for work in the movement, but also is revered for that work by many. That bishops traces historic apostolic succession from many lines, but especially back to the Apostle Philip and to Mary Magdalene. Now, that "pedigree," as it were, in less rude circles, affords me, whom "B"-the Narrow-minded pointedly called, " 'Mister' "A"," the title of "Reverend," and often, along with it, "Father," or "Pastor," as an acknowledgment of my ministerial priesthood. I am not, by any means, one who likes to cling to titles and pomp for their own sake, but I do want to point out when one of our fellows is suggesting that the priesthood I hold is of lesser worth than his own.

I suggest that "B"-the- Narrow-minded take a good hard read of the encyclical letter, "Saepius officio," and try (I know it will be difficult) to digest the principles found therein.

Also, I am 40+ years of age. Perhaps that makes me "young" in some circles. It makes me "old" in others.

Now, several encyclopedias provide the following definition of apostate:

"Apostasy is the formal religious disaffiliation or abandonment or renunciation of one's religion, especially if the motive is deemed unworthy. In a technical sense, as used sometimes by sociologists without the pejorative connotations of the word, the term refers to renunciation and criticism of, or opposition to, one's former religion. One who commits apostasy is an apostate, or one who apostatizes. The word derives from Greek ; (apostasia), meaning a defection or revolt, from ;, apo, "away, apart", stasis, "stand", "standing". The term is sometimes also used to refer to renunciation of a belief or cause by (generally facetious) extension of the religious connotation, such as in reference to a political party or a sports team.

"Apostasy is generally not a self-definition: very few former believers call themselves apostates and they generally consider this term to be a pejorative. Many religious movements consider it a vice (sin), a corruption of the virtue of piety in the sense that when piety fails, apostasy is the result. Unlike apostasy, heresy is considered the rejection or corruption of certain doctrines, not the complete abandonment of one's religion. Heretics claim to still be following a religion (or even to be the "true believers"), whereas apostates reject it entirely."

I have held the same religion since I was first conscious of what religion is. I have, over the years, come to a position in which I find certain controverted points of dogma to be counterproductive and superfluous. When I was ordained to the priesthood, I made clear to the bishops ordaining me that I would not profess the Nicene Creed. They saw fit to ordain me anyway.

I do not reject my religion entirely, and I certainly do claim to still be following it in a true sense. Hence, if "B"-the- Narrow-minded insists of branding this choice, "heresy," I am indeed a hetertic to his supposed orthodoxy, but I am no apostate. I minister every day to people deeply wounded by organized religion, and by Christianity especially. Many of them are apostates; they hate their former religion and they vilify it at every opportunity. They are also generally bitter in a lot of ways, not unlike the very "orthodox" Brendan-the- Narrow-minded. Usually, after doing what Jesus did with these people, rather than spouting about my take on the finer points of theology, they grow considerably less bitter and considerably more loving -- especially, I have found, if they learn to embrace heterodoxy and heresy.

~ "L"+, presbyter, heretic, servant of the servants of God.

> You're right this is not relative to the fact that Mr. "A" is an apostate heretic :-)
> Must be old age setting in. Good thing we have the youngsters to alert us.
>
> "B"+
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bishop "G"
> To: ASM-Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:
> Subject: Re: [ASM-Forum] Re: Shock & Update Info....
>
>
> As usual "B" has hit below the belt. Who would have thought it!
>
> I remain, In His Service,
>
> Bishop "G"
> Bishop of "What Did You Say?"
>
> Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Buddha
 

Apostle1.com's Ending Note, Commentary & Opinion from our Vladyka +Thaddeus who is the Metropolitan Archbishop-Primate (Presiding Archbishop) of this jurisdiction of the One, Holy, Orthodox, Catholic and Apostolic Church: After reading the above, I cannot help but to recall history and the many times the true base, ground and root of the Christian Church (Orthodox Catholic as it is known and called in these present times) has had to fight against heretics, apostates and their many "ism" theologies and false doctrines that would have splintered the Church established by Jesus Christ through His Holy Apostles.  Such a time that strongly comes to mind is the efforts and struggles (both spiritual and material) that St. Basil (one of three Holy Hierarchs) had to contest with in order to maintain the true faith of his flock.

'Men and pastors: I am not better than the prophet Jonah throw me into the sea too, just so the disputes cease!"  And no matter how much his many admirers tried to dissuade him, he remained firm in his decision to give up the see of Constantinople. 

"Give me rest," he said, "from my long-lasting labors, show respect to these gray hairs, honor my wanderings, and bring into my place someone else who will be able to please you in all things and bear the burdens of the church, for the present time especially demands such pastors...  I am tired of hearing criticism of my meekness; I am tired of squabbling with words and with envy, with enemies and with my own flock".... [ Ed. additional Note: In this respect as regards St. Basil's message to them and present times; it is not 'rest' that I, personally speaking, seek as it is rest from the fears I see of those pastors and ministers who are true strugglers for the faith and those parishioners and followers of those true strugglers for the faith who are a part of the many different 'forums,' groups, etc. who have been 'sucked' into false doctrines and theologies such as exampled by ASM FORUM at yahoo.com.  For indeed, those who follow are following because of a degree of 'camaraderie' found there.  But it is a false 'camaraderie' that exists as is noted by the evidence of the exampled forum owner/moderator who responded to the 'complaining individual' who cannot and will not accept TRUTH and FACT about Church history, nor follow or practice that which came down through time and history of such a short distance wherein the very HOLY SPIRIT INSPIRED SEVEN ECUMENICAL COUNCILS are out-rightly and flagrantly violated with, in most instances, foreknowledge of the blasphemy they have imbibed in against the Holy Spirit.  As said, not all their members are knowledgeable of these truths, and those who do, don't care for they have no fear of the Lord Himself nor that which will take place in the next life on judgment day for them, for they actions shows forth contempt which means they are, for most of those who are 'heretics' as declared by those same ancient Seven Ecumenical Councils, are Protestants and/or former members of the Roman Jurisdiction of the Catholic Church themselves ]

"Perhaps they will also criticize me (as they already have) for not having a rich table, nor clothes appropriate to my rank, nor solemn processions, nor majesty in my bearing.  I did not know that I would have to compete with consuls, governors of provinces, and the most prominent military leaders who do not know where to spend their wealth; that I would be expected to live in luxury from the inheritance of the poor.  I did not know that I would be expected to ride on excellent horses, brilliantly shine forth in a carriage, that there should be meetings and receptions full of servility for me, that everyone would have to make way for me and fall back before me as soon as they saw me com­ing even a long way off.  If this simplicity of mine was a burden to you, forgive me for it: it is now at an end. Place over yourselves someone else who will satisfy the people and give me the desert, country life, and God; He is the only One I please by the simplicity of my life.  So for the sake of the Very Trinity Whom you and I both honor, for the sake of our common hope and the Church, grant me this mercy and release me with prayers...."  [ As to the exampled group - - - it would appear that there is little to no similarity concerning their possibly having rich tables for neither does this unworthy one... nor clothes, processions, nor majesty in my own bearing... However there appears to be something akin to 'processions' in theirs it would seem because it is 'self-image' the object and subject of the sin of vanity (one of the sinful passions) that they have about them and their moderators... a 'controlling' aspect to self image is to insure that their members are not able to see or hear of such truth and facts that might, could or would turn them to those jurisdictions and true bishops who struggle for the faith out of pain of heart... They sometimes call themselves "Old Catholic" and are not even "Catholic" in spirit and truth except for their demeanor in providing liturgies and dressing the part... while their doctrines and theologies come with intermixed cultic Protestant beliefs never sanctioned by the Church, especially the ancient Seven Ecumenical Councils... they even, with intent, to further disguise themselves and to beguile and mislead those with them, the meaning of "Catholic" with such finesse that they have, themselves, fallen in league with those who are of old disease called Scholasticism... not that which is Holy Spirit inspired... or they would have long before turned from their deceptions and deceiving actions in these present times!

There are many in the Old Catholic Jurisdiction, Old Roman Catholic jurisdiction who are most honorable and righteous believing clergy, along with many of the followers they shepherd... even so, the same exists in many other jurisdictions who claim the "Independent Movement" for themselves... Yet, far too many are similar to that of what is described in our example regarding ASM Forum...

Truthfully, I can only say that their actions, their very words are much like those who promoted Arianism in St. Basil's time on earth, although that is not to say that they are.  What they are promoting is a close proximity only insofar as their doctrines (both administrative and otherwise) which is leading many to believe that they are true 'Catholics' when it also has been shown above, they are not... that is deception on their part and they do not wish for anyone to know of it, speak of it either directly or indirectly.  They may have all the man-made paperwork to show their pedigree as a bishop, but the true Church always has proclaimed that it is the action(s) that that must be looked at for the individual 'bishop' to be a true bishop instead of just a paper-made one even if consecrated by a thousand bishops.  And, as it was pointed out to his most repentant unworthy one in the vineyard of this life... by someone who is no longer with us in this life, a man who should be sainted, +Karl Barwin, "...those false shepherds do not and cannot accept the ancient Holy Spirit inspired Seven Ecumenical Councils because they know they would automatically be deposed, defrocked and excommunicated... for they were fully aware of their actions (for most of them) prior to and after their consecrations... and since... Therefore my son, they are truly blasphemers and if they publicly admit to knowing of the ancient Holy Spirit inspired Seven Ecumenical Councils, they, without having spoken a word, know they are false shepherds in wolves clothing... they are blasphemers! That is the one 'unforgivable' sin according to Holy Writ unless, while they are alive in this life, take all actions to repent of the ill begotten gain (be it even that of self-image) and other gain... thus turning away from error and such other beliefs and actions! Pray for them, and all whom they have errantly shepherded into the coming chasm of hell's open mouth... pray for them all both known and unknown!"  ]

And he (St. Basil) left, this great, humble bishop, who had so lab­ored and one so much for the Church, leaving to all his testament: "Children, 'keep the traditions!'" (I Tim. 6:20).

"There is one God reigning on high; and our age has seen one worthy Bishop.  That is you, Basil, thundering pro-claimer of the truth, bright eye of Christians!"

And it is these many things that I do not fight against so much attempt to correct as I also am a member of many of those groups as a "lurker" - - - hoping that I may find those who want truth and are at least 'willing' to keep their spiritual and material eyes and ears open to TRUTH and FACT...  Yet, it is becoming more and more a hardship to do so when the very moderator(s) of many of those forums and groups close off such that would otherwise allow for posting historical facts and spiritual truths that have come down to us through time and history from Jesus Christ, His Holy Apostles and their true legitimate successors (again, "true legitimate successors" means those who hold true to the faith in word and action regardless of all the pedigree documentation they may hold or have!)  ...

I believe that we as Christians will become an illegal religion in times to come because we speak out scriptural truth regarding sin and so tolerance will probably be little to none because we will be speaking out against society as a whole. It appears as if we will face prison sentences for being Christian and speaking out before very many so-called Christians who hopefully decide to open their eyes and do something to get others to open their eyes and change our leadership in civil government(s) and even in Church leaderships is something so necessary. They do not want to recall or remember that the Holy Bible came about after the Church and that the Church is NOT THE RESULT of the Holy Bible...

When we have spoken of "Prophesy" - - - we must remember that "Prophesy" is not Set In Stone unless the people and those to whom the Prophecy is speaking, change their ways.  If they do not, then the fulfillment of Prophecy will come about... There is still time for clery and people to change...  It is that to which this unworthy one is hopeful for... Change to TRUTH and FACTS... for each one, according to their nature and degree of ability(ies) can so change... only if they are willing to maintain an open enough mind to do the research themselves and a strong desire to be true to the Life and Teachings of Jesus Christ, His Holy Apostles and their legitimate successors in both spirit and truth!

In the name of democracy, even in the Church, we hear and see in print the thoughts of those who would add such as befits heretics and apostates.  An example of this can be seen when a clerygman or others in a group or forum, even the church herself, write such quotes from those of other heretical religions such as Buddha.  Buddha has no place in the Christian Church no matter how good the thought may evoke or be, such as the quoted “Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared. – Buddha’’ It is a religion of heretical doctrines that goes against the very fabric and grain of Christianity itself... and in spite of the next argument that may be made that Jesus Christ (according to some of the gnostic histories - - - studied the religion... there is no factual proofs and the argument in itself is not unwrothy because we say we are CHRISTIAN and ORTHODOX, thus our lives, our thoughts and our ways of walk and talk on a day-to-day basis must be as CHRISTIAN without inclusion of any thing from other religions for the very Life and Teachings of Jesus Christ through His Holy Apostles, embodies all the good that may (I said ’’may’’) be gained from other religions and thus no need to resort to such outside of CHRISTIANITY.

There are fine disagreements that each of us may have and have had over time, but there are also most destructive agreements as well.  One must love the good peace which has a good goal and which unites one with God... But when it is a case of obvious dishonor, then one must rather accept fire and sword, paying no attention to the demands of the age in which we live and of its so-called leaders both civilly and ecclesiastically who have fallen away (without forethought or seeming concern) as regards our CHRISTIAN walk and talk.  (I dare say: not nly of secular, but of ecclesiastical leaders) and of anything at all, than to share in the leaven of wickedness and to join the infected.  The most terrible thing of all is to feear anything morethan God and as a result of this fear for a servant of the truth to become a betrayer of the teachings of Faith and Truth. 

It is sad to have to say that there are so very many today in the various groups and forums on the internet and in the churches themselves where they ’rage’ (with a smile on their faces and sweet words that hide and deceive the truths of which we speak)... who rage against the long established customs, doctrines and dogmas that have been handed down to us through time and history being so very unwilling to reconcile themselves to these truths and change their ways of thoughts, words and actions... instead of trying to prove every way possible that it is incorrect and inadmissable. We see this in the very exampled forum of which we have used...

Inasmuch as I have said that there are many in those groups and forums, as we have exampled; there are clergy and people who are members of them who have true sincerity of faith, according to their nature and degree of ability to understand and accept facts (both historical and otherwise) - - - who either fail or refuse to go further in their search to be on the path that leads to holiness in spirit and in truth... And then there are many, many more who, as clergymen and people, know these truths and yet because of the way, manner and/or form of their upbringing or because they have been ’hurt’ along the way in life either by a person or people or even the church herself, rally with such rage agianst these truths that their hidden anger has predominate hold over their spiritual and material growith, especially those who have been so wrapped up in such negativity for so many years... and, for the most part, they don’t know it!  Even if they did, they wouldn’t accept it because of their elitistic and arrogant attitudes while claiming themselves as a part of a ’community’ of humble monks, people, etc. - - - but their (the individual) brand of so-called ’humility’ is false and a sham with all the sweet deceptive words...

For many of those described people and clergy, the church has become a theater of sorts.  Women come to church dressed more improperly and immodestly than are those who engage in debauchery there.  They attract immodest men and even clergy... If someone wants to seduce a woman, I think no place seems as convenient to him as the church; and if someone has to buy or sell something, the church seems to have become more convenient than the public square.  There is even the more evil of gossiping... for the gossip can be heard more often than anywhere else, and if you want to know the news, you will find it in the church better than the electronic news media, beter than in the ocurt room or doctor’s office. Is this tolerable?  Can any true self-proclaimed Christian stand for this? 

True, sincere, honest clergymen, monks and nuns suffer and wear themselves out so that the people and clergy members of these various groups, forums, etc. will take away some useful instruction and understanding, but they leave with more harms than good it would appear, especially when it comes as ’quotes’ from other religions that have no place in the CHRISTIAN Church, groups or forums...

Nothing inrouces dividison into the Church like love of authority... Nothing so arouses God’s anger as do divisions in the Church.  Even if we were to do the most perfect deeds, but while destroying untiy, we will be punished just as if we had born sin.  If you sin every day, then repent every day and clean up that which has no place in the Church, in the groups and forums; and get back to the root, ground and base of all things truly CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN... accepting, preaching and teaching that which is from times of old... not from other denominations or religions for the true Orthodox Catholic Christian is not a part of a denomination, bu a part of that which Jesus Christ and His holy apostles established that we carry which include the ancient Holy Spirit inspired Seven Ecumenical Councils and the Seals of the Confessional. 

You may even be asking if it is possible to attain salvation by repentance... of course it is... For God’s mercy is immeasurable and His goodness indescribable.  If we and all of you practice and hold fast to the ancient Holy Spirit inspired Seven Ecumenical Councils which, as said, are often referred to as the DO NOT COUNCILS, then every thing else is open to creativity and the Holy Spirit (not the un-holy spirit of anti-christ) will lead you... more surely than you could have ever believed...

When I spoke of the destructiveness and rage of others - - - there are many who actually "HATE" and they don’t know the degree of this or that they have it within them... for it is so ingrained in the fabric of their being that it has acted like a virus which cannot be seen or sometimes felt ... Such is the hate of many in the various forums, groups, etc. Whose fiery denunciations touch us who, according to our nature and degree of ability, try to stay on the path of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ and His Holy Apostles.  In the end, this leads to unjust condemnations by those who have become false brothes and sisters, even other bishops whose own hate beocme overwhelming to other members who struggle in this life for the life to come, creating confusion and further disunity.  Those are many who have become hypocritical.  Such backbiting is not slow to bring about slander, which causes others not so educated (and some who are) to spread all sorts of humiliating nonsense. 

In these evil and perfidious times that we find ourselves with both the economic and environmental disasters causing society and people extreme hardships, even on clergy too; are there any remaining clergy who are willing soldiers for Jesus Christ and His Holy Apostles left - - - honorable pastors and archpastors who are willing to sacrifice their very own life for the life of other strugglers if the purpose of the stance to preach and teach true Christianity as it should be, along with good morals....???? .... ??? There are some remaining, but very few... and more and more we find the destruction of the Church moving forward... at a greater degree all because people and even clergy will not pull their minds or heads out of the sand to take a closer look around, to return to the ground, root and base of the true Orthdox Catholic Christian Church herself...

The Jurisdiction I belong to is slowly growing, but this is not meant to be a recruiting campaign for us, but a recruiting campaign for the Church for it matters not what Jurisdiction you may (or may not) belong to for each one, including our own, need fact and truth taught and preached all the time, not just part of the time!

A democracy, even an imperfect one, only works if the majority of the people are a moral people and they are all involved in the day to day affairs of the nation instead of their own personal pleasures that they somehow have been convinced of that they deserve. [ed note: It is rather interesting that the three religions, one being sports, the other being entertainments, and the third being Islam (Muslim) have been unanimously approved without any bill presentations in congress or a presidential signature... so, our health care bill reform and such other types of bills that the public is slowly realizing is diminishing (if it hasn't already)  remaining freedoms... or whatever is left now!]

Those of the exampled "forum" groups, etc. is what has been and is causing for the Church to be splintered in these present times and is the base for what is going to happen in the not-to-distant future... For they are destroying "Christianity" bit by bit with their false and misleading doctrines, dogma, theologies, and more!

Does anyone care to make an attempt to see what we as a church can do at this moment to begin a change or become a part of a change that is already struggling to survive and help people for the times ahead that will only become worse no matter what secular authorities and figures may say on the electronic news media or in the printed materials?

+Thaddeus the most unworthy repentant one and fool for Jesus Christ in the vineyard of this life!

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