From Athens to Rome

Editorial Notation: In the following discussion the topic of "Ecumenical" "Dialogue" or "Relations" arose. However, what is not said or, may be, indirectly indicated is the on-going dialogue with those who are so-called "Christians" by name only who have far removed themselves from the roots of Christianity and those who are not "Christian" but of other religions who oppose even Christianity. An example of such dialogue is the renovationist ideas inculcated in the World Council of Churches (Council of Churches) and the World Council of Bishops who, as religious-political organizations, have opted to accept the ideologies of the Evil One for a One World Church. Any Patriarch of any national jurisdiction who has opted to accept such ideologies and take active participation in them is anathema to the ancient Seven Ecumenical Councils (prior to 1054 A.D.). Lest you fall to the grandiose talking below... examine and beware.... lest you fall into the trap of accepting the Evil One into your hearts and homes by such allegiances warned against by Holy Scripture, the Holy Apostles, Patristic Fathers and the ancient Seven Ecumenical Canons. We are closer to the End-Times than what you may think.

The holy synod of the Greek Orthodox Church shelves the archbishop of Athens' visit to the pope. The archbishop speaks his mind in an interview. An ecumenism with Catholics "in economy class"

ROME – On Saturday, November 27, John Paul II will restore to the ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople, Bartholomew I, the relics of St. John Chrysostom and St. Gregory Nazianzen, which were smuggled away by the crusaders after the sack of the capital of the empire in the East, in 1204.

Bartholomew I asked to have the relics back while meeting with the pope in Rome last June. And John Paul II promptly agreed.

The pope had once been planning to go in person to Constantinople on November 30, the feast of St. Andrew, and also to visit the capital of Turkey, Ankara. But the trip was cancelled, and it will be Bartholomew I who will come to Rome to receive the relics at a solemn ceremony in St. Peter's basilica.

Moreover, John Paul II was preparing to receive in Rome, toward the end of 2004, a visit from another lofty exponent of Orthodoxy, the Greek primate Christodoulos, archbishop of Athens.

The pope was to have given him another venerated relic, one of the links from the chain of St. Paul's imprisonment, which had been promised to the archbishop during the pope's visit to Greece in May of 2001.

But this visit to Rome by an Orthodox archbishop of Athens – the first in history – was suddenly cancelled at the beginning of October.

It was scuttled by the holy synod of the Greek Orthodox Church, which in a vote of 45-15 required that Christodoulos delay the trip.

For what reason? Because of an insurmountable hostility toward the Church of Rome? The same hostility that had constrained John Paul II to wait 23 years before visiting Athens?

Archbishop Christodoulos granted the following interview in Athens:

"We Are All in the Same Boat"

An interview with His Beatitude Christodoulos, archbishop of Athens and all Greece

Q: Who blocked your trip to Rome, and why?

A: "The conservative elements of our Church have not forgotten the wounds we have received from the Catholics throughout history. We have freedom of the press, and the fundamentalist circles write, and encourage others to write, that we should not have relations with the Church of Rome. This is not my opinion. We must sensitize our bishops and people and help them to understand that, without denying history, we can initiate a new era of mutual understanding and collaboration."

Q: Do you have contacts with the tiny Greek Catholic Church?

A: "I have excellent relations with the Greek Catholic community. Some of its bishops were my classmates, at the Catholic school run by the French Marianists. We have taken concrete steps together, for example making possible the pope's visit inb 2001, which met with very strong opposition among us but then came off to everyone's satisfaction. We collaborate on issues of bioethics, on social questions, in the advancement of women. One other meeting place with Catholics was that provided by the attempt to introduce a reference to Christianity as the foundation of the continent's unity into the preamble of the European constitution. Unfortunately, as is well known, this mention was denied, almost as if in denial of the very monuments of the spirit and of art that cry aloud the truth of the matter."

Q: These are the points of agreement. What about those of disagreement?

A: "Two years ago, I invited the Greek Catholic bishops to my office. We agreed to meet again, but that was unfortunately not possible, because the Catholic community saddened us a bit by not supporting our Church's effort to prevent religious affiliation from being eliminated from identity cards. Kostas Simitis' socialist government announced this decision suddenly, while I was in Romania, and we reacted by collecting three million signatures and calling for mass demonstrations. But the Greek Catholic Church opposed our effort: they think that the mention of religion on the identity card provokes discrimination against those who are not Orthodox Christians. This is not true. I told a Catholic archbishop: 'If we do not react immediately to this action against the Church, others will follow. We're all in the same boat, and when we sink we'll all sink, regardless of whether we travel in business or economy class'."

Q: How do you think the Church should react to the secularist offensive?

A: We Christians should agree on how to react toward secularism, but we don't do this enough. The Protestants, for example, have done nothing on behalf of the mention of Christian roots in the charter of Europe. We should be more vigilant. Secularism draws many away from the Church, but the Church should be close to the people, to help them. There are discussions about how to overcome the lack of trust among people within the Church. The Church should not follow the world in order to win it over, but should stand before the people and show them the way of salvation. The Orthodox Church is a Church of tradition. In our life, the worship of God takes first place. We keep alive our ascetic practices, fasting, all-night prayer vigils, and our monasteries are centers of spiritual life. We know that we have changed nothing of what was established by the apostles and the holy fathers. Modernism is outside the garden of the Church. Especially in matters of faith, change is not possible at all."

Q: Are you sure the people will follow you?

A: "Both in Greece and in the Greek diaspora throughout the world, we construct two things first of all in each new city: the church and the school, or the places for priest and teacher, faith and education. In any case, for more than four hundred years we have been under a dominion of different nation and religion. And who has remained close to the ordinary people, while our intellectuals emigrated to the West? The priest and the bishop. They are the ones who have brought comfort to the people. They have preserved the people's language and identity. They have guided them to independence. They have helped them to rise up, not through imposition, but because the people wanted it. Perhaps Western Europe cannot understand this, because to it the priest seems far removed socially and ideologically. We in Greece, as a Church, are the continuation of the ancient assembly of the people, when in democratic Athens all of the citizens participated in the governing of the city. The same is happening in our time: all in the parish participate without distinction, in their own roles, and I have never heard a better interpretation of the relationship between Church and state, between the Church and the people in Greece, than that given by a Turkish scholar who during a convention in Cyprus said that he was jealous of how the Church in Greece has helped in the liberation and development of the country, while in his Muslim country religion has led to deterioration instead."

Q: But the Greek Church has the reputation of being conservative and backward.

A: "I remember what a French journalist wrote recently in the newspaper 'La Croix'. He understood the identification of the priest with the people in Greece when he saw our married priests live with their children and wives like other men, when he saw them have coffee with their faithful after the mass, when he realized that there is great comprehension and affection for the people on the part of the Church, as in matrimonial questions, in which two divorces and three marriages are permitted. If one learns only from written texts, and not from real life, what the relations are between Church and state in Greece, then one might judge us as being conservative or backward. But this is inaccurate. On questions of human rights and religious liberty we are pioneers for the whole world, not only in law but also in the people's mentality."

Q: Pioneers of civilization?

A: "Bad information about us set up the whole world for the big surprise of the Olympic games in Athens, when this Greek people succeeded in doing what seemed unattainable: organizing the games better than many countries considered developed, and moreover with the culture from which these games were born. There is a confusion in the West about the terms 'civilization' and 'culture'. There are civilized peoples that lack culture, like 'paideia' and the sense of life. Civilization for us does not mean only means of transportation, roads, public works. Civilization is the road one takes in life, the care of one's fellow man, love for one's suffering neighbor. Very often development comes at the price of solitude, desperation, boredom with life, a lack of optimism and hope, recourse to medication as a false escape from life's labyrinthine ways. We must learn the humility of moderation: 'métron áriston', moderation is best, as our ancestors said. We must learn to temper technology with culture in order to bring our civilization to life."

Q: What do you think of the possible entry of Turkey into the European Union?

A: "The ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople, Bartholomew I, tends to favor the entry of Turkey into the European Union, and we agree with him. But there are a few priorities: human rights and religious freedom. Furthermore, is Turkey ready to share the principles of European civilization? And then, from the geographical point of view, where does Europe end? At Constantinople, certainly, but how far does the area of Constantinople extend? European identity is also determined by race and religion: on this point, we have not yet arrived at a conclusion."

Q: What is your judgment on ecumenism?

A: “We look favorably on the ecumenical movement and hope that theological dialogue between Catholics and Orthodox will resume as soon as possible."

Q: What, in your assessment, are the greatest obstacles?

A: “The problem of uniatism [Eastern rite Churches in union with the pope of Rome] is particularly serious for many national Orthodox Churches, and we hope it can be overcome as soon as possible. We will also need to discuss the ministry of Peter from a theological point of view."

Q: John Paul II brought up this point himself in the encyclical "Ut Unum Sint."

A: “For us Orthodox, the bishop of Rome has a primacy of honor, and not of jurisdiction. This is a difficult question and it requires much patience, attention, and prayer, given that serious ecclesiological differences have arisen between Orthodox and Catholics over many centuries, which will not be easy to erase. The responsibility belongs to all of us, bishops, clerics, and laymen, and depends upon our own initiative, so we must ask with great humility for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ and his illumination, saying 'Speak, O Lord, your servant is listening.' The fact is that the struggle for the imposition of earthly power [of one Church over others] is inconvenient, and spiritual unity is more effective, according to the words of the apostle Paul, the founder of the Church of Greece."

Q: There has long been talk of a synod for all of the Orthodox Churches. At what stage are the preparations?

A: "It is to the ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople – the first according to an ancient hierarchy of honor – that the role belongs of coordinating the gathering of a pan-Orthodox synod, which has not happened for more than a thousand years. We hope, pray, and (speaking for ourselves) seek to eliminate the obstacles in order to reach the blessed moment of our plenary reunion in the Holy Spirit."

Q: How are your relations with the patriarchate of Constantinople?

A: “After a serious clash [over the nomination of three bishops in northern Greece], I would say that mutual affection and understanding are returning. The primary thing is the pastoral care of the people, whose servants we are. We should not sadden or scandalize them over questions which, moreover, they do not understand."

Q: And relations with the Orthodox Churches of Russia and Romania? They accuse the Greeks of controlling the patriarchates of Alexandria in Egypt and Jerusalem.

A: "The truth is that the historic patriarchates of Alexandria in Egypt and Jerusalem have very few faithful, and it is the Greek Church that helps them, lending them three hundred of its priests, many of whom are missionaries in Africa. The Orthodox mission in Kenya, Uganda, and other African countries traditionally is led by the patriarchate of Alexandria in Egypt. And the new patriarch nominated just recently, Feofan, from the island of Crete, is giving a strong impulse to the mission."

Also present at the interview with the archbishop of Athens was bishop Athanasios of Achaia, representative of Greek Church in Brussels. Athanasios is the one who responded to the last question, and to the preceding one on the entry of Turkey into Europe.

But for Catholic Archbishop Fóscolos, the Barricades Have not Fallen

In the newspaper of the Italian bishops' conference, "Avvenire," correspondent Mimmo Muolo on October 29 compared some affirmations from Archbishop Christodoulos on relations with the Catholics of Greece with other affirmations – of a different tenor – from the Catholic archbishop of Athens, Nikolaus Fóscolos.

In Greece, there are 50,000 Hellenic Catholics, .5 percent of the population, but 2-300,000 Catholic immigrants of various nationalities have joined them in the last few years.

Fóscolos complains that they are treated like second class citizens: "Here, the non-Orthodox are not considered real Greeks."

And he maintains that the inclusion of religious affiliation on identity cards "was a factor of discrimination: our young people, on account of this label, frequently were unable to find work." For this reason, the Catholic community favored the abolition of its inclusion, while the Orthodox Church protested vigorously against the move.

The lack of recognition of the Catholic Church's legal public personality is another cause for dissatisfaction for Fóscolos:

"Since 1946, Greek law has prevented our organizations created after that date from being recognized by the state. It is time to put an end to this injustice. It is, in fact, evident that the government does not want to make the Orthodox Church unhappy for a religious minority like ours. We hope that things will change thanks to the European Union."

Another case of friction between the Greek Orthodox Church and the Catholics is very recent. Fóscolos says:

“On October 15, I personally heard archbishop Christodoulos affirm, in the course of a television newscast, that 'the Christians of the West have falsified Christianity.' This is how our bishops' conference responded in a statement the following day: 'How can we bring our two Churches closer together when we hear Archbishop Christodoulos use offensive words in regard to the Catholic Church?' I know that the press office of the Orthodox Church then issued a correction, but declarations like these risk refocusing the fundamentalism of the most intransigent of the Orthodox."

Christodoulos uttered the contested phrase in the city of Kastoria, in the homily for the celebration of the Greek war against the Turks and Bulgarians at the beginning of the twentieth century. The Greek Catholic Bishops, gathered for an episcopal conference, interpreted it as an attack against the Catholic Church, just as the state television news program did in reporting it.

In the correction, the Orthodox archdiocese of Athens denied having wanted to attack the Catholic Church, and explained that the phrase in its entirety should have been interpreted as a call to humility issued to all Christians, beginning with the Greek Orthodox Church itself.

'Protosinkellos' Thomas, vicar general for Archbishop Christodoulos, made an analogous correction in a conversation with the Vatican nuncio in Greece, Paul Fouad Tabet.

Hostility against the Church of Rome and against ecumenical dialogue are a constant in the Greek Church, much more so than in other Orthodox Churches. In 1963, Christodoulos' predecessor, Chrisostomos II, entreated the patriarch of Constantinople, Athenagoras, not to meet Pope Paul VI in Jerusalem – as indeed took place – because it would be like "planting a murderous knife in the heart of the Orthodox Church."

The monasteries of Mount Athos are also historically a bulwark of resistance to ecumenism, apart from a few recent exceptions.

Catholic archbishop Fóscolos says: "The pope's visit in 2001 overthrew the wall, but some barricades still remain."

The holy synod's cancellation of the planned voyage of Christodoulos to Rome is proof of this.

Also waiting in Rome for the Orthodox archbishop of Athens was a degree 'honoris causa' in canon law from the Pontifical Lateran University. It remains in the drawer.

To Change the Nation and the World